RS2--daniel

This will be a long one, but I've spent a great deal of time researching all of this, and want to share in an attempt to perhaps create a larger conversation.

As part of my continued interest in learning more about the other realm, I have recently begun a quest to gain a better understanding of the little people known to have traditionally taken up residence in the area in which I currently reside (Minnesota). I began my search by reading into the stories (both new and old) told by the Anishinaabe/Ojibwa peoples in the northern parts of the state: Red Lake Reservation, Leech Lake, and the Boundary Waters. My research has crossed over into the stories told by the Passamaquoddy, located farther East on the continent. I have also searched through old posts on the public forums of the Boundary Waters canoe area, and have found that encounters have taken place in modern times; although one or the other race have tended to run in the other direction. All of the tales, taken from this array of different sources, seem to be similar in nature, telling of the following:

*Little people 2 1/2' to 3' in height, covered with hair. Some reports state that they have big lips and lack noses, or have noses that are quite flat on their faces.
*They have been known traditionally as 'The Stone Canoe People', or 'The People of the Stone Canoe', due to the fact that they have traditionally traversed the vast waterways of this area in canoes made of stone.
*Amongst the Indian tribes of these areas, there seem to be references to two different races of little people; or perhaps a variation of the same race. The Anishinaabe refer to them as the Memegwesiwuk, the Passamaquoddy as the Nagumwasuck and the Mekumwasuck.
*They seem to be somewhat ambivalent when it comes to the idea of humans. They have shown to be helpful and kind towards humans, perhaps similar to the Brownies, though they have also shown to perhaps steal people away or cause illness when people stop to stare at them.

The post that got me started along this line of research comes from the BWCA (Boundary Waters Canoe Area) Messageboard:

kclamken11/08/2005 07:44PM
 
Sorry I haven't been on here in forever but school is kicking my butt lately.

I was calling some friends to get started planning next summers trip and one of my friends said he would not be going and told me a very strange story about something that happened to him last summer when we were on Ensign Lake. It happened at about 2:30am on May 16th when he went to go use the john. I am going to refrain from posting more about this right now because i want too see if anyone has had anything similar happen without my input as to what took place. I am tending to believe his story as he is a veteran and I trust him. Anyway, I would really appreciate if anyone has any info about anything strange that has gone on in the area of Ensign or Ashigan.

Anyway, I know this is a strange request but I would really like any input on this subject.

Kevin
**here he leaves his email address, which I have taken away for the moment.

When pressed by others posting on the board as to the nature of the experience, he stated this:

11/09/2005 04:30PM
 
Ok, I know that this is gonna sound bizarre. My friend is convinced that there was a 2.5 to 3' tall "brown hairy man" watching him use the john. He said that the hairy man watched him until he was done, and when he moved towards it, it ran off into the woods.At first i was very skeptical, but the more I talk to him the more I am starting to wonder what happened. He is a veteran and an intelligent, lucid person, with alot of experience in the outdoors. I thought he possibly saw a coon, marten, or grouse, but he is adamant that the figure was humanoid. Also, I don't think he would have a problem with identifying the animals in that locale. The thing about this that is most convincing for me is the fact that he doesn't want to go back to the BWCA. He is usually the first person on board and the most helpful in planning. So if anyone has ever had a similar experience or heard any stories let me know. My curiosity about this is killing me.

Kevin

I intend to send Kevin an email (if the address is still valid, that is) explaining what I know. All of the responses on the board, save but one, were sarcastic in nature.

From the Forum of the BWCA came this post:

RaisedByBears99

04/05/2012 05:07AM
 
When I was young, the BWCA was a different place. As we paddled, we seldom saw other people. My mother's family had lived in the area for generations, and paddling with older family members was a treat.

Around the campfire there was always singing, plaintive ballads of battles and wars and the girl left behind, Indian princesses, and French chansons about fountains and birds. Then there were the stories.

I heard about the Seventh Megis, and the Great Turtle, which some people say is Washington Island. That is why there are so many burials there and a person should never tarry overnight.

By the time I was ten, I knew why Bear has a short tail, why Fox can't be trusted, why wolf is the friend of the Ojibwe, why Rabbit always runs, why Turtle is good and Owl is evil.

I learned about Nanabajou, the hero-trickster and shape shifter; to look to your packs and gear and to be wary of people walking in the woods wearing red shirts.

In winter, we heard stories of the Windigo, the Cannibal Ice Giant. Bloodchilling tales that can still raise the hair on the back of my neck.

At times we would watch the lightning, and grandfather would explain we were watching Animikii Binesi, the Thunderbird, attacking his foe, Mishiginibig, the Great Horned Serpent. When the waves were high and rolled over the gunwales, grandfather warned us not to put our hands over the side for fear of Mishupishu, the supernatural underwater lynx. When we paddled calm deep rivers with high banks, grandfather told us to paddle faster so we weren't caught by Stone Canoe People.

I used to think, "If they're are paddling underwater, and their canoes are made of stone - we shouldn't have to paddle too hard to keep clear of them."

In more recent years, the Stone Canoe People, Memegwesi or Memegwesiwuk, have been defined to me as "hairy bank dwelling dwarves," and their danger lies not in their menace, but in their charm - luring children away to live among them in their harmless and simple world.

I know that as a 21st century Christian, I probably shouldn't spend time thinking about these tales, but somehow, in the Boundary Waters, considering the people who plied these lakes and rivers long before me, the stories seem to have their place somehow. Even today, I will sometimes paddle around a river bend and think, "This would be a place for Memegwesi."

From the Winter 2003 edition of the Boundary Waters journal came:

*Saga Of Little Udd – Cary – p.31
            fictional story: the “Little People,” gnomes

From pages 415-16 of the book 'Elder Gods of Antiquity' by M. Don Schorn comes this:

"According to author Daniel Cohen, the Penobscot Indians of Maine called such small beings the Wanagemeswak. The Eskimos called their friendly little people the Kingmingoarkulluk, while the Aztecs called their fearsome dwarfs the Tepicoton. The little people of the Ojibwa Indians of northern Minnesota were called the Memegwicio or Memegwesi. The Cree Indians knew them as Memegwecio. They were diminutive humanlike creatures described as being about the size of a 10 year old, fully covered with hair, with a very flat nose. The Ural Mountain Turanian people called their dark, round-headed dwarfs the Dwergar (sounds somewhat similar to the Nimerigar). Many accounts link those dwarf beings with a companion race of giants, (the neanderthals?), living side by side."

This by Paula Giese - an account from the Mille du Lac Ojibwe, who have traditionally knocked rice along all of these winding waterways:

MEMEGWESIWUK Like Rice, Too

Maude's step-mother told her an interesting story about meeting Memegwesiwug (Little People) once when ricing:
We always went to Boy River, we were always doing something there at Boy River. We were ricing there, and were sitting down towards evening. She (Maude's step-mother) was saying that they had seen Memegwesiwug.
They too knock rice there on Boy River. The river turns there," she said. "We were knocking rice along there," she said.
"Maybe there is someone over there," her old man was saying, so they stopped there and put down the knocking sticks. Sure enough, the sound of knocking was coming along toward them where they were sitting in the water, and then a canoe suddenly appeared. They just sat there watching those two knocking rice.
They wanted to see who it was, but when they blinked their eyes, they disappeared from view. "He said 'Memegewesiwug', " she said, "that's what he said; those Memegwesiwug have hair on their faces."
I wonder what kind of creatures they are.
These hairy-faced Little People live in river bank caves, they say. It's interesting to compare this recollection of Maude's with the research Pat Paul did on Little People at his Reserve, Tobique, New Brunswick. After I posted that story, I got quite a bit of email from Indian people who said "I thought nobody knew about those Little People except on our rez." They didn't tell me any stories, though. Anyway, it looks like Minnesota's Little People like wild rice, too! I wonder if the DNR ever arrested any of them?

This, from native-languages.org:

Legendary Native American Figures: Memegwesi (Mannegishi)

Name: Memegwesi
Tribal affiliation: Ojibway, Algonquin, Ottawa, Cree, Metis, Innu, Menominee
Alternate spellings: Memengwesi, Memegweshi, Memegwesì, Memekwesiw, Memegawansi, Omemengweshii, Maymaygwayshi, Memekwesi, Memekwesiw, Memekwisiw, Memegwecio, Memegwicio, Mannegeshi, Mannegishi, Memekueshu, Mimakwisi, Mamagwasi, Mamakwasew, Memegawensi, Maymaygwayshi, Memengweshii, Mee'megwee'ssi, Memogouissiouis, Mimikwisi, Mimikwisiw, Mîmîkwîsi, Memegwe'ju, Mee'megwee'ssio, Memegwe'djo, Memekwe'zu, Memegwedjo
Pronunciation: Varies by dialect: may-may-gway-see, may-mane-gway-see, or uh-may-mane-gway-shee
Also known as: Memegwesiwag is the plural form of their name, also spelled Memegwesiwak, Memengweswag, Mamagwasewug, Memekwesiwak, Maymaygwaysiwuk, Mimakwisiwuk, Mimikwisiwak, Mîmîkwîsiwak, Meymeykweysiwak, May-may-quay-she-wuk, May-may-quay-so-wuk, or Ma-ma-kwa-se-sak. Sometimes also known as Apa'iins, Pai'iins, or Pa'iins, which literally means "little people."
Type: Little people, river spirits
Related figures in other tribes: Wanagemeswak (Passamaquoddy), Wiklatmu'j (Micmac), Mikumwes (Wabanaki), Makiawisug (Mohegan)

Memegwesi are small riverbank-dwelling water spirits. They are generally benign creatures, but sometimes blow canoes astray or steal things when they are not shown proper respect. In some Ojibwe traditions, Memegwesi can only be seen by children and medicine people; in others, they can appear to anyone, and may help humans who give them tobacco and other gifts. Most often Memegwesi are described as being child-sized and hairy with a large head and a strange voice that sounds like the whine of a dragonfly. The Cree and Innu describe them as having narrow faces, and some Menominee storytellers have said that they have no noses. It is sometimes said that Memegwesi were originally created from the bark of trees. Memegwesi are said to carve symbols on rocks and sometimes carve small canoes for themselves out of stone. Some people believe that their name comes from the Ojibwe word for "hairy," memii, since Memegwesi are usually described as having hairy faces and bodies. Other people believe that their name is related to the word for butterfly, memengwaa.

This, from a BWCA Yahoo discussion group:

And this one from the Maliseet of the Tobique Reservation showing
the relation of these little people to the inner earth.

"Some elders of the Tobique recall their old swimming hole
muskumodesk where they used to swim, play and frolic. Muskumodesk is
a solid rock and ledge area of the reserve where a strange rock
design is located."

"Right in the middle of this rock-ledge formation is a 18"x18"
block section that is missing as if a person had taken a saw or some
kind of cutter to carve out and remove it, leaving a step-like or
seat-like formation remaining there that the swimmers used to play
around for years."

"Directly under the seat or step is a tunnel-like opening or an 18"
diameter opening that goes-god knows where, and is always very dark
and very spooky inside. No one, as I recall, ever explored the hole
for fear of the Obodumkin, a legendary water monster, or the
Geowludmosiseg."

"Some say that both, the step and the tunnel, are creations of the
Little People who are reputed to always be around water areas, such
as swimming holes, near lakes, rivers, brooks, etc. much like the
famous Leprechauns of Ireland."

"In 1953 through 1959, two hydro-electric dams were constructed in
the Tobique area and many places where the Native people often
frequented were flooded over, including the step and the tunnel
locations. No pictures exist, to my knowledge, showing this unique
area that used to mystify so many people. The step and tunnel also
have never been thoroughly researched nor has adequate explanation of
their origin, except for the Geowludmosiseg angle."

LJ

This, from a publishing company out of Portland, which appears to be a first-hand encounter at Red Lake Reservation, located in the Northwest corner of the state:

The Little Man

I live in northern Minnesota with my older cousin on the Redlake Native American Reservation.
Every day we would go on walks along different trails through the woods that we would come across. Each day we would go a little further then the last, just talking or practicing our singing voices. We no longer do this due to what we've experienced.

Ok so there was this one particular trail I liked taking because it lead to this very old building made of stones. We would go inside to check out what looked like (in my opinion) an old torture chamber or jail of some sort. As we left the stone building, the sun was starting to go down. We got halfway through the trail back home (keep in mind the trail is at least two and a half miles long) and my cousin got the brilliant idea of camping out at the building. I of course replied without hesitation "NO, you can!"

He then said "Fine, alright, stay here like a little *****". When we got to the house he grabbed his camping supplies and walked into the woods without saying a word. After a few hours passed it was 2:30am and I became scared of being alone in the house. When I would go to the bathroom I would walk slowly against the wall down the hall looking back every 5 seconds and then quickly go in and shut the door. 

So I had no idea what was going through my head, but I walked through the trail at 3:00am, walking as fast as I could with a flashlight in my hand. I couldn't keep steady. And then I got, I'd say about 3 quarters down the trail, still walking fast and not looking back for anything. And then I heard some sticks crack on my left....

I was shocked and couldn't move. I turned off my flashlight because I thought it was a bear and kept as quiet as I could. And then I heard this odd flute music in a distance. I was so terrified. But there was this feeling I got that made me go toward it. I got closer and closer as the music got louder, but I then blacked out of shock. I woke up on the ground right next to a small shadowy man sitting on a stump facing away from me playing his flute...

I was so scared that I couldn't move and at the same time controlled by the beautiful harmony its flute of some sort was creating. I thought in my head "alright, three, two, one....". I then got up slowly trying no to make any sudden noises. As it hopped quickly on its feet and turned at me,
I saw it. It had long hair past its knees, no nose, big black lips that stretched across it's face, and black beady eyes that looked see through. It spoke something in tongues that sounded like it was talking backwards as it walked closer and closer.

I ran as fast as I could down the trail. I started seeing a fire so I ran even faster toward it and got to my cousin... of course he did not believe me. So we sat at the fire for a while, until we eventually went inside the building...
I fell asleep in a heartbeat due to all the running I did, until my cousin woke me up with fear in his face I've never seen before. He told me to stay quiet and we looked out a barred window of the building at a tree that was 6 feet away and there were 5 of the same little people I seen earlier.

He said "Watch this. They were doing this all night" as they danced around the tree with the same flute music. He threw a rock at a nearby tree and they all ran into a hole on the side of the tree. We looked at the hole afterwards and saw nothing but a dead end 5 inches into the tree. I asked an older women about this and she told me I should have appreciated his music. And now I hear the same flute music at 3:00am every day whether I'm asleep or not.

I'm not asking you to believe. Just warning you to be cautious in the woods of northern Minnesota.

In her book 'An Encyclopedia of Fairies', Katharine Briggs relates the following story (a bit long, but of interest, as the majority of the tales in her book are drawn from the tales of the Celtic Isles and Britain. This is one of the few tales drawn from the North American continent):

The Little People of the Passamaquoddy Indians:

"There are two kinds of Little People among the Passamaquoddy Indians, the Nagumwasuck and the Mekumwasuck. Both kinds are two and half to three feet in height, and both are grotesquely ugly (depending upon the set of eyes with which you are looking, I suppose, as beauty is in the eye of the beholder). For the following particulars we are indebted to Susan Stevens, an anthropologist married to the Chief of the Passamaquoddies (further research reveals that Sue Stevens passed on some years ago, and that she was involved in land rights disputes between the Passamaquoddy and the U.S. federal government).
The Passamaquoddy Indians, of whom there are about 1,200 living close to the Canadian border, used to migrate to the ocean in the summer and move inland in the winter. When they moved, their fairies moved with them. Now they live permanently in two reservations, each of which has Nagumwasuck attached to it. These fairies are closely involved in all that happens to their humans, and can be heard singing laments when there is a death in the tribe and rejoicing and dancing when there is a wedding. When a new church was built in the 1930's, they made a tiny stone church on the lake shore. People heard them hammering and singing at night, and in the morning discovered the church. They are very conscious of their ugliness, and do not like to be seen. It is almost fatal to laugh at them. Some little clay cylinders found on the shore at the ocean reservation are said to be the pipes of the Nagumwasuck, just as small clay pipes dug up in Ireland are said to belong to the fairies. One old lady told Susan Stevens that she and some other women had seen the Nagumwasuck leavening the reservation early one morning, going over the lake in a stone canoe. They said they might return one day when more people believed in them.
These Little People are seen only by the Indians. It is the same with the Mekumwasuck, who are also about two and half to three feet in height. They live in the woods and are fantastically individually dressed. Their faces are covered with hair, which strikes an alienate note to the Indians. According to the oral report, they were made of stone, but this is omitted in Susan Steven's written account. They are the guardians of the Catholic Church. The Passamaquoddy people were converted by the Jesuits at the very bigiing of the 17th century. The Mekumwasuck are much dread, for if they look directly at any Indian he dies or is attacked by a contagious disease; an interesting exampled of BLIGHTS AND ILLNESSES ATTRIBUTED TO THE FAIRIES. One woman seeing a Mekumwasuck managed to avoid his gaze, but her companions were overlooked, and all fell ill; some died.
Some time about 1970 the priest was on vacation and some drunk men broke into the church to steal the holy wine, but the Mekumwasuck were on guard and drove them out of the church. One man stuck in the window, and they belabored him until he broke loose. In 1971 or so a dance was held in Lent, at which Susan Stevens acted as chaperone. The priest had given permission, but the old people were uneasy about it. Suddenly a boy of sixteen who was taking part saw one of the Mekumwasuck. he was terrified and went to fetch his cousin to see if he could see it too. The cousin was very unwilling to look for fear he should draw a dangerous glance on him, but at length he looked and saw the spirit. The report went round, and the entire company of seventy-five people were out of the room in two minutes. It was much feared that a death would follow this visitation. Nothing happened, but there have been no dances in Lent since then.
It seems possible that these spirits are not native but are imported gargoyles. The function of gargoyles is to guard the church from the devil staring out in all directions. None of the glories of the Gothic church would be known to he converts, but homesick missionaries describing their native land might well give the impression to the Indians that the gargoyles were hideous spirits guarding the church. It is not the only time when carved figures have been taken for fairies. The Chessmen of Lewis are by now a well-known example."

Seeing as how I myself am interpreting this account in a literal sense, I am not certain that I agree with Brigg's healthy level of skepticism here. She herself did not seem to think the Little People to be real and true entities; yet throughout the course of her writings, I do sense that she is asking herself this question.

It is the line that I have underlined above in bold that caught my eye. Brigg's book was published in 1976, and the event in question took place in 1971. 40+ years have passed since that date, and I would imagine that if they were leaving the Passamaquoddy at that time, then perhaps they are no longer living above ground.

All of this is to say that I am struck with an interest in knowing them better, to possibly open up a line of communication between our cultures, whether that communication take place verbally or by some other means. If truly they still do reside along cliff banks in certain parts of the Boundary waters area, (which is perhaps the last truly wild place left in the state), then I wonder what might happen should they come face to face with a human who would not run the other way in absolute shock and awe. I have enough faith in myself and in my intentions; though I do realize that no matter how much I might prepare myself for such an encounter, the moment would most likely be unlike anything that I could possibly anticipate. But my intuition and my gut tell me that I would remain composed, despite the well-spring of emotion that may arise from telepathic communication, a heretofore unknown experience for me.

I have it in mind to visit the Boundary Waters area sometime before the close of this summer season. Whether or not that trip could become an opportunity to interact with our neighbors is a large part of the reason for this post. Could such an encounter be possible?

I have been warned, and I heed these warnings. Humanity has become such an astounding caricature of itself that it's no wonder that most of the little people (and the big people) want nothing to do with us anymore. I do not wish to be taken away from this point in time, to be whisked away to the other realm, without a chance of a return to this present moment in time, the 'here and now' for me. I do not wish to fall ill, and I do not wish to be a captive in their realm. I do not understand the rules of that other realm, though I am slowly learning. Perhaps they may be willing to teach and/or share, in return for that which they would deem a rapport-based gift from the human world, or something so simple as, "is there anything that I can do for you?" I have thoughts on this, though it will require a deeper search on my part. I might compare it to stepping into a new culture for the very 1st time, understanding the essence of THEIR moral code. Perhaps gifts would offend them greatly, as seemed to so often happen in the past, when humans would offer gifts of clothing to the brownies, who would then wail in sadness and frustration and leave the human homestead forever, never to return. They seemed quite content in tidying things up around the home (without being seen, of course), and when gifts of clothing were offered, the humans seemed to do a right good job of messing up a perfectly fine relationship.

I understand well enough that 'seeking them out' is not a part of how this works. I could go walk-about up in the Boundary Waters, to Ensign Lake. I could find the coordinates for the previous locations in which they were seen, (perhaps to the very same tree in Red Lake Reservation), but would such a thing be an infringement upon their privacy? Would I not be welcome there, even if my intentions were peaceful?

I cannot help but feel that we can gain much from knowing one another better. I shudder to think of a future in which other peaceful races shut us out entirely, leaving the Earth as a terraformed, planetary prison. With the rate at which we are corrupting nature and all life within it, I cannot foresee that the little and the big people would stay here indefinitely. At some point, I would imagine that they would all leave (if all of them have the ability to do so, that is); unless they be content sharing the Earth with a race of transhumanist termites. But then, I foresee this as one of the goals of the Sanctuary Project: to put humanity on a TRUE and natural path towards evolution, not an artificial one. What we can be and become lies with us; on both ends of the spectrum.

AnAncientAwakening wrote:*Little people 2 1/2' to 3' in height, covered with hair. Some reports state that they have big lips and lack noses, or have noses that are quite flat on their faces.

This reminds me a lot of the Yunnan snub nosed monkeys of the Himalayas. PBS aired an episode of Nature on these mysterious creatures earlier this year, and I watched it with a strange sense of possibility that this species is the closest thing I have yet to see to a physical little person. Not to say I think the stories related from your area are cases of mistaken identity, but I do wonder if there's some kind of connection between this species of monkeys and that species of little people.









Have a look at the documentary. Their behavior is less monkey like in many regards than that of other primate species (including ours). When I watched this the first couple of times, I could not help but see people in small bodies rather than animal cousins to our own species.

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365478612/
Alternative:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM9K07u9oOQ

joey this is excellent observation.
and altho no implied connection- the images appear to fit the give description of the facial similarities of the op.
the 1st pic could be young yota, "yota younger he would be"

joeyv23 wrote:I watched it with a strange sense of possibility that this species is the closest thing I have yet to see to a physical little person

Don't you mean that a person is the closest thing you've seen to these monkeys? After all, man is only 90% monkey... the monkey is 100%.

Billy... for some reason, when people run across LMs in the wilderness, it never seems to occur to them to just sit still and say, "hello." It takes little more than that, as they read feelings quite well.

If you do decide to venture to the Other Realm, always mark your point of entry and return on exactly the same path. You have to remember clock time and clock space get switched. If you exit by another route, you may end up at the same spatial location but no guarantee as to what year it will be. Distance = Duration... the essence of motion.

daniel wrote:Don't you mean that a person is the closest thing you've seen to these monkeys? After all, man is only 90% monkey... the monkey is 100%.

You're right, I did misspeak. I should have said that this species is, as best as I can imagine, the closest thing to a flesh and blood LM that I have seen. And even still, technically speaking, it wasn't a flesh and blood being that was seen in the program but the reflection of the solids of time constituting the corpus of the creatures captured by the photographic equipment.

"Billy... for some reason, when people run across LMs in the wilderness, it never seems to occur to them to just sit still and say, "hello." It takes little more than that, as they read feelings quite well."

Funny you should mention that, because I was having the exact same thought - why not just say "hello neighbor?" My initial thought here, (in regards to the encounters that I have been reading about having taken place in the Boundary Waters and on Red Lake Reservation), is that human beings are observing something that goes completely outside of their realm of reality. Thus, a reaction of utter shock and fear is not surprising. In my case, what with the fact that I know of the Little People, I would begin with just these simple words: "Hello Neighbor." I feel fairly assured of the fact that whatever underlying emotions were to be radiated by me in that moment would have an affect upon the overall encounter. Of course, I would hope that we could share a genuinely friendly encounter, as I myself would harbor no ill will; only the curiosity and wonder of meeting a fellow peaceful traveler, regardless of how different that traveler and I may appear to be physically (and mentally).

"If you do decide to venture to the Other Realm, always mark your point of entry and return on exactly the same path. You have to remember clock time and clock space get switched. If you exit by another route, you may end up at the same spatial location but no guarantee as to what year it will be. Distance = Duration... the essence of motion."

As I continue to read through ancient legends, I have come to find a common theme: Quite often it would happen that human beings who would wander into the Other Realm were led there by the Little People, whether by an act of sharing and/or need on the part of the LMs (as in the case of human midwives to LM families) or by an act of 'trickiness', i.e. folks wandering home at night along a country road and being 'pursued' or 'led on' by one of the LMs. It seems as though it's a place into which a human would rarely wander unawares. Again, it appears that it comes back to your statement from years back: "YOU don't find the LMs. They will seek you out." Not to mention that attempting to wander into a place where I know that they have been seen might very well be construed as a gross intrusion of privacy, no different than a stranger coming knocking on my door. Then again, I don't recall ever having been sought out at my home by another in the hopes of making a rapport-based connection.

It's the part about clock time and clock space being switched that leaves me with more to understand. Also, what which you mention concerning Distance equaling Duration as it relates to the going back and forth between the cosmic and spatial sectors/realms/reference systems leaves me with more to ponder. This SHOULD be simple to grasp. I'm still waiting for that AH-HA moment in regards to understanding the reciprocal/inverse relation between space and time. As I read through Larson's work, the math is beginning to make sense, but it's the underlying concept that has got me still a bit confused. If the Little People are able to travel freely between both realms, then how far forwards (future)/backwards (past) in time are they able to realistically travel? Or am I still thinking of time in too much of a linear fashion here? I suppose that a better way to put it would be: Does there exist a natural limit to how extensively they can travel in the temporal reference system?

I can see why traveling back along the same path would be important, yet, how exact might we be talking here? Following in my own footsteps? Is the boundary that precise? Of course, that also raises questions about what the boundary itself actually is.

I'm going to ask a question here that may be on the personal side, and I understand if you are not able to answer it: Have you yourself ever visited the other realm? I know that you are friends with some of the Little People, but have you ever ventured into their realm of existence? If so, what was your experience like? It seems as though some sort of 'glamour' is involved in keeping their private affairs hidden from us and/or making their realm appear to us to be quite different than perhaps it truly is. It would appear that one of the ways in which they do this is through the use of ointments. I would guess - prepared in such a way as to extrude the bioenergy from herbs? No doubt in my own studies and provings upon myself with herbs which I have gathered and prepared in my own apothecary that profound effects can be experienced between the life force of the plant (whether bark, leaf, berry, and so forth) and the life force of the human. Great healing can happen, great insight can be gained, if the intention, from start to finish, is done with rapport in mind.

I have so many questions. I am so curious. I wish to share. I would like to know them as friends, as naive as that may sound. I would like to counsel with them, tell them that there is and always has been beauty in humanity; as rare as it may be. Though, I would wager to guess that they are very well aware of this. I only wish that there could be more sharing between us; other than human military naval forces destroying their chain cities.

AnAncientAwakening wrote:Of course, I would hope that we could share a genuinely friendly encounter, as I myself would harbor no ill will; only the curiosity and wonder of meeting a fellow peaceful traveler, regardless of how different that traveler and I may appear to be physically (and mentally).

If you want to know how to interact with the Little People, watch an old Disney film called Darby O'Gill and the Little People (starring Sean Connery). Darby (Albert Sharpe) does a superb job with his knowledge of their behaviors and idiosyncrasies.

If the Little People are able to travel freely between both realms, then how far forwards (future)/backwards (past) in time are they able to realistically travel? Or am I still thinking of time in too much of a linear fashion here? I suppose that a better way to put it would be: Does there exist a natural limit to how extensively they can travel in the temporal reference system?

The temporal reference system is also a "planet," with many similar features to our spatial version. Limitations are similar in both realms, eg: bound by gravity, got to swim through cosmic oceans, etc.

3D space + clock time works the same as 3D time + clock space. When you look with your "mind's eye" (soul's perception), the 3D time world has a very similar structure to what we have in 3D space... except it appears more mythological and magical, whereas space is technological and scientific.

I can see why traveling back along the same path would be important, yet, how exact might we be talking here? Following in my own footsteps? Is the boundary that precise? Of course, that also raises questions about what the boundary itself actually is.

Remember that the Reciprocal System is based on "discrete units," so there is some tolerance. Following in your footsteps is usually close enough to get you back to the time you left. Also consider that the planet rotates... the more time you spend in the Other Realm (duration), the more distance you may be putting between where you entered and where you left. (There are many accounts of people entering the Faery realm, to return in another country--stayed too long.)

I'm going to ask a question here that may be on the personal side, and I understand if you are not able to answer it: Have you yourself ever visited the other realm? I know that you are friends with some of the Little People, but have you ever ventured into their realm of existence? If so, what was your experience like?

Yes, I have a persistence in the Other Realm. Think bigger, Billy, your soul is already there... just bring consciousness to it, and you'll exist in both places concurrently. That is the homo sapiens ethicus approach. That is how the LMs exist, one foot in each realm, so all you have to do is shift your position slightly, to appear or disappear. Man, on the other hand, tends to just have a toe in the Other Realm, and since they cannot see, it gets stepped on a lot.

It seems as though some sort of 'glamour' is involved in keeping their private affairs hidden from us and/or making their realm appear to us to be quite different than perhaps it truly is.

You can ask Chris about that... he got "glamoured" not too long ago. They don't need to do anything to hide their realm. The human mind does it all on its own, since virtually everything you know is "make believe." Man has no reference for "reality."

It would appear that one of the ways in which they do this is through the use of ointments. I would guess - prepared in such a way as to extrude the bioenergy from herbs? No doubt in my own studies and provings upon myself with herbs which I have gathered and prepared in my own apothecary that profound effects can be experienced between the life force of the plant (whether bark, leaf, berry, and so forth) and the life force of the human. Great healing can happen, great insight can be gained, if the intention, from start to finish, is done with rapport in mind.

The various ointments, aromas, meads, etc., mess with the brain's neurotransmitter systems so that you stop blocking the information that is already coming in. It is more of a psychological operation than a physical one. When done correctly, it allows the mind to remove its psychological barriers that have been programmed in by society, then no ointments are needed. (Basically, many of the magical herbs are placebos--a way to trick you into accepting what you already perceive.)

I have so many questions. I am so curious. I wish to share. I would like to know them as friends, as naive as that may sound. I would like to counsel with them, tell them that there is and always has been beauty in humanity; as rare as it may be. Though, I would wager to guess that they are very well aware of this. I only wish that there could be more sharing between us; other than human military naval forces destroying their chain cities.

300 years ago, things could have worked out between man and LM. These days, man is considered an abomination to Nature. That is why they avoid contact... unless you have something unique to offer. And if that is the case, make very sure you offer it with no "expectation of return." Think about that carefully. Rapport, not rivalry.

daniel wrote: Remember that the Reciprocal System is based on "discrete units," so there is some tolerance. Following in your footsteps is usually close enough to get you back to the time you left. Also consider that the planet rotates... the more time you spend in the Other Realm (duration), the more distance you may be putting between where you entered and where you left. (There are many accounts of people entering the Faery realm, to return in another country--stayed too long.)
[...]
Yes, I have a persistence in the Other Realm. Think bigger, Billy, your soul is already there... just bring consciousness to it, and you'll exist in both places concurrently. That is the homo sapiens ethicus approach. That is how the LMs exist, one foot in each realm, so all you have to do is shift your position slightly, to appear or disappear. Man, on the other hand, tends to just have a toe in the Other Realm, and since they cannot see, it gets stepped on a lot.

Maybe I have not browsed enough in these fora because I still do not quite understand how exactly this "going to the other realm and coming back" works. So I will try to explain it as I understand it so far and if anybody sees errors in my understanding, please tell me.

1. I exist in two realms meaning I have already a body both in the material realm and the cosmic realm.
2. My consciousness can either be in this or the other realm and can even be in both realms at the same time.
3. I might have had the ability once to "see", maybe even access the other realm but lost it due to our current cultural understanding of growing up (=brainwashing) but I can regain the ability.
4. If I regained it: I shift my consciousness to the other realm by means of meditation or the like in order to access the other realm. My spatial body however still remains in the material world during that process keeping/sitting/lying still the whole time.
5. In this state I can travel the cosmic realm in my cosmic body with my unconscious that I am now conscious of.
6. I exit the cosmic realm by shifting my unconscious back to my consciousness.
7.1: I exited where I entered and haven't spent much time in the cosmic realm so I get back to my spatial body which is still located where it was in the first place.
7.2: I exited where I entered but spent much time in the cosmic realm so I get back to my spatial body that has somehow teleported to another country!?
7.3: I did not exit where I entered, haven't spent much time in the cosmic realm though, so I get back to my spatial body which is still located where it was in the first place, only in a different time in the future or past.
7.4: I did not exit where I entered and spent much time in the cosmic realm, so I get back in a different location in a different time.

Or are there entrances to the other realm (between doorways, bridges, etc.) where I can physically go with my spatial body that I will be still inside of in the other realm? As far as I understood this can't work.


edit:

daniel wrote: If you want to know how to interact with the Little People, watch an old Disney film called Darby O'Gill and the Little People (starring Sean Connery). Darby (Albert Sharpe) does a superb job with his knowledge of their behaviors and idiosyncrasies.

Here is a stream. (If you put the link into JDownloader you can watch it with subtitles. I synced them for this version.)

animus wrote:1. I exist in two realms meaning I have already a body both in the material realm and the cosmic realm.

It would be better to say a "presence" in the cosmic sector, as that is the definition of life. That presence can be a distinct individual that can move about the realm, or part of a group or collective soul that just exists in the realm. Consider a lawn, which has millions of blades of grass, but it has a single group soul in the cosmic sector. Most animals (including most people) have group souls. What Carl Jung refers to as the "process of individuation" has to do with getting out of the herd, and getting a distinct, psychological presence that can move about the Other Realm.

In Native American terms, the tribe was the "group soul" and the shaman of the tribe was the protector of that soul in the Other Realm, as he was distinct and able to move freely.

2. My consciousness can either be in this or the other realm and can even be in both realms at the same time.

Correct. But your structure in the Other Realm will determine how you perceive it. If you stand in the entryway to your home, you can face two ways--looking outside at the exterior world (the cosmic sector) or inside at the living room (the "time region"). Most people are looking inside, so they only become aware of the Other Realm when something whacks them on the back, forcing them to turn around.

When you exist in both realms, your senses parse spatial relations and processes them with thinking (the masculine/yang aspect), while your intuitions parse temporal relations and processes them with feeling (the feminine/yin aspect). That is why the Alchemists tried so hard to achieve the hermaphrodite, the perfect blending of the male and female aspects of themselves.

3. I might have had the ability once to "see", maybe even access the other realm but lost it due to our current cultural understanding of growing up (=brainwashing) but I can regain the ability.

True. The loss of ability is often referred to as losing one's "innocence" of childhood.

4. If I regained it: I shift my consciousness to the other realm by means of meditation or the like in order to access the other realm. My spatial body however still remains in the material world during that process keeping/sitting/lying still the whole time.

Again, what you see is determined by what kind of presence you have in the cosmic sector, the soul side. Most people are looking in to their house, which exists in the Other Realm--but they don't look out of the doors or windows, except by accident. Meditation is a technique that allows you to put some conscious control on that cosmic presence, to give you the opportunity to look out a window. It is more difficult with dreaming.

5. In this state I can travel the cosmic realm in my cosmic body with my unconscious that I am now conscious of.

If you are part of a group soul, you are bound by temporal gravity--to move, you'd have to drag the group along with you (which is what gurus, etc, do). If you have individuated, then you are free to explore. (Keep in mind that a soul group can be as small as a married couple, or as large as a culture, society or species. Depends on how connected you are to the group.)

6. I exit the cosmic realm by shifting my unconscious back to my consciousness.

In the case of meditation and dreaming.

7.1: I exited where I entered and haven't spent much time in the cosmic realm so I get back to my spatial body which is still located where it was in the first place.
7.2: I exited where I entered but spent much time in the cosmic realm so I get back to my spatial body that has somehow teleported to another country!?
7.3: I did not exit where I entered, haven't spent much time in the cosmic realm though, so I get back to my spatial body which is still located where it was in the first place, only in a different time in the future or past.
7.4: I did not exit where I entered and spent much time in the cosmic realm, so I get back in a different location in a different time.

Moving your consciousness across your "silver cord" (as witches and wizards call it) is safe, because you always stay connected between the same material and cosmic locations--providing you don't stretch it too far and it breaks, or someone cuts it. Moving between the personal conscious and unconscious is the safest, because it is the shortest cord.

The returning coordinates (space and time) are determined by HOW you cross over. Moving consciousness keeps them fixed. Moving your body into the cosmic, or your soul into the material runs the risk of getting offset to a different time or place.

Or are there entrances to the other realm (between doorways, bridges, etc.) where I can physically go with my spatial body that I will be still inside of in the other realm? As far as I understood this can't work.

Yes, there are physical pathways that allow you to enter the cosmic sector. The book Etidorhpa describes one such journey. Arrival at the Sphere of Rest (inward speed boundary) means your biological structure has changed where you can enter either realm.

Remember that scalar motion is the essence of the Reciprocal System--and you are made of this "scalar motion," which New Age refers to as a "light body" (technically inaccurate). The atoms of your body are the "shadow" of this scalar existence, so they can be either material or cosmic atoms--or both in balance.

Wow, thank you. That filled some gaps.

daniel wrote:The returning coordinates (space and time) are determined by HOW you cross over. Moving consciousness keeps them fixed. Moving your body into the cosmic, or your soul into the material runs the risk of getting offset to a different time or place.

Ah ok. So for a bystander this would look like in the movie "Jumper" where you just vanish. (And then reappear in either a different place or different time.)

daniel wrote:The atoms of your body are the "shadow" of this scalar existence, so they can be either material or cosmic atoms--or both in balance.

Balanced as in there are as much material atoms as there are cosmic atoms or balanced as in one atom itself is balanced? The latter would make more sense, I guess.